Numbers

Comments

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Very good Paul. I agree. Principle is a great place to start but if you can represent your principles well... the numbers will follow. Sometimes I think people cop out on a litany of specific events crying out how alone they are in the battle instead of teaching the principles (doing the hard work) to as many people as possible to affect a grassroots change. Does that make sense?
Yea, Randy. People fail to see the bigger picture because they are so wrapped up in the "right-ness" of the circumstances in which they find themselves. The point is we need to understand the bigger picture - what is our objective? To gain as many people on our side to attempt to do the Lord's will. When our efforts are not resulting in increased numbers, something is wrong - very wrong.
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totally agree.
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Interesting post, Paul. Realpolitik at its finest... However, when I see Washington DC the government buildings there do not give me the impression that I maybe accidently wondered into down town Jerusalem. Athens or Rome, maybe, but definitely not Jerusalem. God's Kingdom, being a monarchy, becomes the foundations for a democracy how? I can see Christian influence in the separation of powers, although I see Roman Republic influence there as well, and I see where with ethics and morals Christianity has had some influence. But the foundation? I like Ike ;o) because at least he was honest -- American democracy is for a religious people, and he didn't care what which one that happened to be.

Martin
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Martin, YES!!! I agree w/ Ike. Now - as people who understand and have the tools, is it not incumbent on us to use the tools and the understanding to the glory of God? Thus my point: Christians promote a poor witness when we fail to use our understanding and the tools - like numbers - to affect every level or our communities.

Thanks!!
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Hi Paul! Yes, we do have a responsibility to the wider community -- but only to a certain point.To persuade, to present our point, to argue for a Christian morality, fine. But to manipulate the political process on the pragmatic basis that we have the technology, we can rebuild him? The Apostle Paul urges us to be good citizens, to vote, to enter the public arena. But there is only so far we can go... Augustine cautioned about the temptation to mix up the city of God and the city of man. Again, we must be salt and light, but it might be by the force of personal example, especially at the grass root level.
Of course we need numbers, but I get the impression that you're implying we need to vote for the Republican candidate no matter what his policy on abortion is just because he's better than a Dem. My thinking on this is if we support pro-choice Republicans then that's what they'll keep giving us. We need to let the party know that abortion is unthinkable. But then again I'm a radical ideologue. John
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Martin - on this one you and I will part ways. You see, I believe that the democratic process is truly an enlightened form of government. It is a process that was unknown in the time of Paul and Augustine - not to say that their wisdom does not apply. But I think it is a fundamental mistake to consider democratic politics unredeemable or outstide of the realm of the spiritual. I also reject the notion that engaging and fully operating in the political process is somehow inherently less Christian. Politics, like any profession is not inherntly manipulative, corrupt, or sinful.

Where is this line that followers of Jesus must abide? Why can't a Christian run candidates, engage in political discourse and even lobby fully in the Spirit and without sin? What is it about the political process that puts limits on a spirit filled Christian?

Let's say I'm a member of a church that holds elections of its members to determine leaders or adopt resolutions and policy. Is there somthing wrong with fully engaging in those leaders, resolutions, or policies in which you believe? Help me on this one.

John, I am explicitly saying that all of our principle doesn't amount to a hill of beans without recognizing the significant role the critical mass plays in prevailing. Without this recognition, we operate in principled ignorance. In fact, your example about pro-choice Republicans is a good one. We need to understand what the electorate will support in a pro-choice, moderate, or pro-life electorate and then plan and strategize accordingly. If we don't like the candidates that your party of choice is nominating, then numbers are a critical component in making a change. You are right to let the party know that abortion is wrong. How do you do that so that you will be effective? I say numbers. Recruit more pro-lifers to your party than pro-choicers. Its a lot easier to just argue our princiles than do the hard work of recruiting and persuading our fellow Christians to engage in the political. But it is more effective.

Good to see you found the blog, bro.
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Paul, you could turn that latest comment into another whole new post. Also, check out my post on Hypocrats.

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Paul

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